Thursday Thirteen 18th Edition

[xakara]

Hello Kittens,

This Thursday is a bit more adult in nature so feel free to pass on by if necessary, I don't mind. Most of you know that I write and that I have a novella coming out on February 26th that is classified as an Erotic Romance as it's a Poly-Romance featuring three people. Why Erotic Romance? Because sex fascinates me and I can only explore it the way I wish under the title of Erotic Romance.

Since my inclination for Poly-Romance, (which ends in the Happily-Ever-After of Polyfidelity), qualifies me as an Erotic writer despite my mild language and such, I decided to look at the other things on the list with me and weigh in on them. It took me a bit to fully feel comfortable with the title of "Erotic Romance Writer/Romantica Writer" because I didn't want readers to expect explicitness that simply isn't there. But I've come to accept that there's no other label and I want my audience prepared rather than shocked when they read my work. So peace has been made with it. 

And in the celebration of peace, I bring you 13 Kinks That Make Your Work Erotic Romance. Now I don't mean that the entire work need center around these elements, (though some should), but that introducing them into the overall plot arc will definitely land you as an erotic writer.

Enjoy.

13 Kinks That Make Your Work Erotic Romance

1. Explicitly Languaged and Detailed Vanilla Sex ~ Naughty language is technically a kink and a staple of Erotica. You don't have to be swinging from the chandeliers or covered in leather and lace; frank, explicit language is enough for the erotic label if it's giving all the down and dirty. 

2. Menage a trois ~ Or more, no one says you have to stop at three, but anything more than two in a bed, (on the floor, across the table or under a waterfall as in my last scene), and you are now an erotic writer. I think Polyfidelity is just as legit as a regular het romance, and I know there are many who practice it who'd like to see themselves represented in fiction as something more than nymphos, man-sluts and kept men/women. Most of the works out there do use the explicit language and detailed acts of #1, but not all, so it's the number, not the way you describe them.

3. Same-Sex Love Scenes ~ I have many issues here. I don't know why a romance with two men or two women needs a warning or safety label like erotic if not explicit and written on par with sexy contemporary romance. I do however admit, that many of the romances that deal with same-sex love scenes do so in an explicit manner which does qualify it as erotic. But matching genitalia shouldn't "auto-qualify" simply because that's where readers are used to finding it. I'm happy to say that this isn't as prevalent as it once was and many publishers now have a dedicated LGBT section.

4. Spanking ~ You like it, I love it for you. But if someone called themselves spanking me I'd knock them into next week. Just not wired that way. Despite being found on the Sadomasochistic spectrum, spanking is a separate fetish that does not require a BDSM setting.

5. Bondage ~ I understand why this attracts some people and I get what it is they derive from it. I can't stand to be bound however, so again, not wired this way to be the one tied. But I'm sympathetic enough to be able to tie someone else if they needed.

6. Domination/Submission ~ On most sites this is lumped under BDSM, but these are not all one thing. It is in fact a spectrum, like sexuality itself, and many things qualify as D/s that don't fall under sadomasochism. I understand certain aspects of the D/s dynamic, and I see the attraction for those in it.

7. SadoMasochism ~ I don't get it. I understand it. But I don't get. I also don't judge it. I understand how pleasure and pain can overlap in the way the body and brain signal each other. I also understand the endorphins involved and the body stress necessary to achieve them such as what happens in running. I respect the intimacy and trust of the situation and the depth of the bond that can form. I don't get the idea of receiving pleasure by causing someone else pain and no one has been able to explain it to me. 

The one issue I have with this category of Erotica and Erotic Romance, is the same issue I have with D/s; the topic is used for titillation without delving into the psychology of it. So I don't come away educated and therefor don't return. Too few in the lifestyle write fiction so there aren't enough viewpoints to give this, among other alternate lifestyles, the blush of truth in fiction that makes it truly gripping to an outsider like myself.
 
8. Voyeurism ~ What's not to love about voyeurism? Assuming it's done in a non-creepy, non-stalker, no-restraining-order-necessary kind of way, voyeurism is an art and it's always great to find it well written and involving, (because voyeurism is involved, don't be fooled).

9. Gender-bending ~ I haven't read enough of this to know if it's done well out there in fictionland. I do know of the complaints and feelings of disregard for those who genderbend, so I'm guessing there aren't a lot of options for those reading in this genre. I have a novella that bends gender but haven't gotten feedback on it to know how a Pub House like Samhain views it.

10. Fetish Play A ~ Objects: Shoes, stockings, lingerie, rope, cuffs, leather, anything that in and of itself is sexualized but doesn't have to do with sex on its own. I've come across very few examples but with so many options I'm convinced someone is turning out great fetish fiction somewhere. If you have a favorite and are brave enough to share, let me know. 

11. Fetish Play B ~ Bodyparts: Breasts, thighs, shapely bottoms, male chests, genitalia, and any part that is sexualized separate from the person as a whole. Any woman who has had someone talk to her chest, or felt them staring eye-prints into her backside as she walked away, realizes the prevalance of this fetish. 

Interestingly enough, it is the fetish that appears most in mainstream romance but goes unrecognized because although emphasized, the psychology behind it isn't explored in enough depth to name it fetish within the pages of the work. However, I'm sure someone, somewhere has explored this in depth, but it is still not something I hear done often.

12. Fantasy Roleplaying A ~ Person Based Sexual Fantasies: Pirate and Bar wench, Boss and Secretary, Fiery Frontierswoman and Passionate Noble Captor, Duke and Orphan, whatever flips your switch. In the context of the romance, it's usally the exploration of a modern woman at some club/spa/island, able to indulge in a sexual awakening through scripted fantasies. 

Most often one of the men who end up fulfilling the fantasy is someone she knows and doesn't want to admit she's fantasized about. You romance readers recognize the plot. I've seen a large amount of these but only read a few. I find them interesting but again, there's often something left out that I just can't quite put my finger on. The psychology behind pursuing such an awakening seems important to me but it's often glossed over or skipped altogether.

13. Fantasy Roleplaying B ~ Humans as Non-humans: Pony-Play, Furry games, Furniture play; there are so many things under this that I couldn't begin to cover them all, nor am I qualified to try. Despite the growing number of these types of fantasies, I have yet to come across a single book that covers it, that isn't non-fiction. But I'm told it's out there and it definitely falls under erotic.

Kink Ramble Done
~X



Links to other Thursday Thirteens! Please SIGN and Leave Your Link in your comment so that others can find you and so that I can place you below.

1. Moon Chylde, 2. No Nonsense Girl, 3. Tempest Knight, 4. Darla, 5. Rian, 6. Frigga, 7. Vixen, 8. Denise, 9. Pussreboots, 10. Jehara, 11. Susan Helen Gottfried, 12. Moondancer Drake, 13. Carrie Lofty, 14. Nicolas, 15. Samantha K, 16. Joely Sue, 17. WhytRaven, 18. Nicole Austin,


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Comments

[moon-chylde.livejournal.com]

And as I said, I had complete confidence you'd get this list completed.

It's a great one. *grins*

[xakara.livejournal.com]

Yes, thank you for the confidence. It was a balance between what to list together and what to list separately, while still allowing it to make sense.

It was important to break up D/s and S&M to cover what I said above, but the list would have been too long if I'd broken down the different fetishes to their own numbers.

I think I managed nicely with only 13 slots to go on. :)

~X

No Nonsense girl (TT)

[(Anonymous)]

Happy TT!!! I'm more the vanilla type of person...

Is it possible for live journal to let us comment with out ID? That would be great... (live wordpress, blogger)

Have a great day!!!

Re: No Nonsense girl (TT)

[xakara.livejournal.com]

Was that supposed to be "with" ID, because it's already has an anon feature that doesn't require ID.

It used to have an open ID system but that apparently hasn't worked for some time and I can't see the page the way non-LJers do in order to test it. I'll have someone try it out and look up things in the faq to give info next week.

~X

[(Anonymous)]

Great TT, Xakara! I agree with you that sometimes it's weird how some stories are considered erotic romance when the sex is pretty vanilla.

Hmm... I wonder if Oprah's "va-jay-jay" word would ever make it into stories. Hehehe!

- Tempest Knight
http://midnightmooncafe.blogspot.com/

[xakara.livejournal.com]

I think va-jay-jay would work in a chick lit context. But let's be fair, Oprah introduced it to a wider audience, but it belongs to the writer's of Grey's Anatomy and the character of Bailey (who I love).

Thanks for coming by, Tempest. It's always appreciated it.

~X

[msmoby.livejournal.com]

There seems to be quite a lot of overlap. I've read books labeled erotica that weren't any more explicit or daring than ones labeled mainstream romance. And paranormal romance seems to be allowed more leeway for kink. It's a spectrum, I think, and I'm glad it's not my job to draw the line.

I agree with you, though, on the idea that simply having a polyamorous or homosexual romance shouldn't automatically get a story classified as erotica.

--Darla
http://nichtszusagen.blogspot.com

[xakara.livejournal.com]

The erotic line is clear once you've crossed it, but getting up to it seems rather subjective from one place to another.

On one hand I'm glad it's not me, but on the other hand, if it was me at least I'd understand why things were the way they were. Right? :)

Happy Thursday, Darla

~X

How refreshing!

[(Anonymous)]

Wow, what a pleasant surprise. Click around the Thursday Thirteens tends to mire the mind in cookie recipes and parenting tips.

This. Blog. Rocks!

My TT today: http://fullbodytransplant.wordpress.com/2007/12/12/thursday-thirteen-simple-pleasures/

Re: How refreshing!

[xakara.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much, Rian!

I guess I just have a different concept of the Holiday Spirit. LOL

Hope this means you'll come by regularly. I'll be glad to see you. :)

~X

[(Anonymous)]

Very interesting. And you make a valid point about the overlap about what gets labeled erotica and what doesn't.

[xakara.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I'm interested to see how the next ten years redefines the genre now that NY Pub Houses are expanding into it bit by bit.

If you come back around to look for a reply, make another one with your name and link if you'd like a return visit. :)

~X

Cool!

[(Anonymous)]

I can't tell you how cool I think it is that you are interesting in exploring what, well, interests you. ;) So many people put judgments or rules on these type of things. I admire your willingness to explore.

Happy TT!

Re: Cool!

[xakara.livejournal.com]

Thank you, I appreciate it. :)

We're the only ones we have to face each day and I'd rather face myself happy with every aspect, than hiding or shameful of something. So I explore and learn and look to understand my interest. I want the same for others so I don't judge what they need either if everyone involved is of age, and consenting. I might not want the details, but I'm happy for them to have found their happiness.

If you come by to check for replies, let me know who you are if that's okay. :)

~X

[(Anonymous)]

Ack - I'll have to remember to come back when I'm not at work! Wait, I mean, I would never blog at work!! Never! But I'll be back sometime after 5 tonite ;-0

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, whoops - that last comment was me:

Frigga @ http://anyapples.blogspot.com/ :-)

[xakara.livejournal.com]

Hey Frigga,

Thanks for letting me know that particular anon was you.

Let me know what you think when you get a chance to read it later. :)

~X

Vixen

[(Anonymous)]

Hey Xakara,
Great list. I think I kinda lean like you..I can see some of what others get out of some of those kinks, but they just don't rock my boat. Some of them do...at least little waves, lol.

HUGS
Vix
http://vixensden.wordpress.com

Re: Vixen

[xakara.livejournal.com]

And that's all anyone wants. No one is out trying to recruit those they meet, they just want you to understand where they're coming from.

There's a great deal I can see the appeal of for others but that just don't follow the current of my particular wiring. Doesn't make them wrong, just makes them not mine.

*Little Waves*, I like that. We should come up with an Arousal Richter Scale to determine where personal tastes fall. LOL

~X

[(Anonymous)]

Interesting post. Even though I don't write it, I occasionally read erotica. Some of it isn't nearly as bad as some mainstream stuff. And, I'm with you on GLBT stuff. I suppose the reason it is considered erotica is the same reason that gay people are viewed as pedophiles - some people are just plain stupid!

Happy TT!

[(Anonymous)]

Forgot to add my link - the post above is mine.

Denise
http://denisesden.blogspot.com/

[xakara.livejournal.com]

Thank you for adding your link, Denise. I'm always concerned that an anon poster is left wondering why I don't return a visit because they don't know they forgot to leave their name and link.

And I agree, I've read some things considered mainstream and others labeled erotic that were much tamer in comparison. It's because the label itself is so arbitrary.

On those who feel LGBT requires warnings and safety labels being stupid...Public Blog, so I can only say "No comment." Though I understand you point of view. *grin*

~X

[pussreboots.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on #3. All of my stories / novels (none of them published) have at least one GLBT couple.

[xakara.livejournal.com]

My coming novella and the two after it deal with bisexuality and have male/male sex in all of them. The novels are the same, having both male and female bisexual scenes with polyamory and polyfidelity themes in all.

The fact that many place me as erotic automatically despite my language and description being on par or milder than many mainstream sexy novels bothers me in how arbitrary it is. I'd wear the label loud and proud if we broadened the definition of Erotic Romance and removed the stigma so it applied fairly to everything without closed door sex.

Right now I make peace because I like being peaceful and I like sex and don't want my hesitation to come across as if I don't. But that doesn't mean I don't see the discrepency in the system of publishing. We have to stop stereotyping anything beyond a heterosexual pair as erotic kink and take each on the merit of how it's written.

~X

~X

great list!

[(Anonymous)]

that's a very thorough and informative list. i didn't know about roleplaying style B though. humans as furniture? interesting. when does your book come out? it sounds like something i would want to read.
happy TT :)

jehara
http://jehara.blogspot.com/2007/12/12.html

Re: great list!

[xakara.livejournal.com]

The novella is out in electronic format on February 26th, 2008. The second novella and the full length novel all in the same world, should come out later in 2008. All of those things are still pending.

And yes, humans as furniture, it's called forniphila and is a subset of Bondage as the subject is bound tightly to keep them in place and in the shape of whatever inanimate object they represent. I get the psychology on a level, but I'm bothered by the images because the subject is usually gagged and the choking hazard of a bound and gagged person brings up all my danger flags. I can't disassociate from the danger to fully immerse in the mindset of those involved.

But where I can get past it, the Non-human plays are very interesting. Seeing people portray animals such as ponies, puppies, and wild cats, or anthropomorphic furries. Then there's statue and doll play, robots/androids, so many possibilities and people out there to fulfill them. Sexual behaviour is an absolutely fascinating field.

~X

[(Anonymous)]

You know, I'd honestly like to read more of most of this stuff. I've read some, but not nearly enough. And you're right: there needs to be a bigger/more extensive exploration of the psychology involved.

The question is: does anyone really have any answers?

Hmmm....

--Susan Helene Gottfried
http://westofmars.blogspot.com

[xakara.livejournal.com]

Hey Susan,

I think everyone has their own personal answers, and because we're all human, something in those personal answers rings true to all of us. So more people with personal experience or who have explored the personal experiences of others need to write in these areas so the rest of us understand.

Make sure to keep your reciepts and mention what you learn in a story. Then you can write them off as research on your taxes. *Wink* LOL

:)

~X

[moondancerdrake.livejournal.com]

Being a writer of GLBT fiction I found it very frustrating when I went to find crit group and was told by the romance folks I had to go find and erotica group because I wrote f/f. Heck, there's not even a full sex scene in my novel Natural Order which was what I was trying to get critted. When I go to the erotica groups they weren't much interested in my story once they figured out there was little to no sex. Not helpful.

To be honest very graphic language in a sex scene is a huge turn off for me, and I totally understand the worry that the reader my be expecting far more graphic tones to my f/f and my m/f/f work than I am willing to do.

Moondancer Drake
http://moondancerdrake.livejournal.com

[xakara.livejournal.com]

Extreme graphic language takes me out of the scene as well. I can adapt if the author is consistent because I'm braced for the next scene, but it never flows the same once I've been thrown out of the story.

There's a fine line that I'm sure is different for all of us, but there are many out there who come off like they're trying too hard and I can't help but be aware of it the entire time. It's disappointing.

~X

From Carrie http://lovelysalome.blogspot.com

[carrielofty.livejournal.com]

Isn't it crazy how many different ways there are to provoke and turn on? And how many ways just DON'T WORK for some people? Humans are cool. Strange, but cool.

Re: From Carrie http://lovelysalome.blogspot.com

[xakara.livejournal.com]

We are a beautiful, strange, ever-evolving, wretched-lovely race of beings, that's for sure. :)

~X

Nicholas

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, I think I have led such a sheltered life! But I have no problem with any of those delightful pastimes being featured in novels. Or on film or stage for that matter. I have a far more visceral and negative reaction to censorship.

http://agentlemansdomain.typepad.com/

Re: Nicholas

[xakara.livejournal.com]

Glad to know that an open mind can flourish even from allegedly sheltered depths. :)

I am not nearly as educated on the various forms of sexual expression as I'd like to be. But I think I hold my own, and I'm expanding what I know at every opportunity.

It's all we can do right? :)

Thanks for coming by as always Nicolas.

~X

I was blocked, lol

[(Anonymous)]

I couldn't really read this, my work computer said it was naughty, lol.
Anyway, thanks for stopping by my list.
Samantha_K
http://xmomk03.blogspot.com

Re: I was blocked, lol

[xakara.livejournal.com]

Blocked? I'm sorry. Hopefully you got to come back by and read later. LOL

Thanks for the return visit. :)

~X

[joelysue.livejournal.com]

I wriye mostly clean logic, too, but have explored some BDSM elements in my stories. Great list!

[xakara.livejournal.com]

Thanks for coming on by Joely Sue.

I have a few of the above in different stories from the psychology of varying characters. It's always a wonderful education to see why they do what they do and how it all plays out. *grin*

Seeya next week.

~X

[whytraven.livejournal.com]

A few of those have slipped into my NaNoWriMo novels. :) Congratulations on your forthcoming book!

I have two TT13s this week:

Better decluttering through TT13
http://www.ravensroads.com/index.php/tt13-decluttering/

http://www.ravensrv.com/thursday-thirteen-4-calistoga-california-for-rvers/
Calistoga, California for RVers

[xakara.livejournal.com]

Good to see other authors are exploring and giving a voice to the many possibilities out there.

~X

[nicaustin.livejournal.com]

I find it interesting your book is being labeled as erotic if the poly relationship does not get explicit. Labels make me crazy, although I do understand the need for them.

Happy TT!

[xakara.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't want someone looking for a sweet, heterosexual romance story to pick up myself and just be agog and offended; so in that light, I understand how labels help. But for the publishing industry to automatically label poly-romance and same-sex romance as erotic, is to say that those relationships begin and end at sex which is deeply offensive.

I just can't decide which places use it out of convenience because there is no other label, and how many really think that.

Thanks for coming by Nic,

~X

[dracschick.livejournal.com]

Congrats and good luck to you!

I like to write erotica as well:)

[xakara.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the congrats and luck as always.

I like to write my brand of erotica. I'd just like for the term to either be expanded and fairly applied or narrowed and fairly applied. This broad one place and narrow the other is just plain confusing for writer and reader alike.

Always glad to see you, C

~X

from damozel

[(Anonymous)]

Fascinating discussion. To be honest, I am "against" sex in any entertainment context, having thoroughly worn out my interest in it back in the Seventies/Eighties. I love a good story, but sex scenes are simply wasted on me. I skip over them and fast-forward through them. Which doesn't mean I wouldn't love the other aspects of your books; I'm just laughing ruefully over my inability to connect to the subject emotionally.

I'm interested in some of the sociological aspects though. Ursula LeGuin, one of my top three writers, wrote about a culture where marriages consist of four people, and often discusses different types of arrangements. I never saw her classified as a writer of "erotic fiction," but there again she doesn't go into any detail about what they get up to.

My assumption about a lot of fetishes is that it arises out of people's pre-pubescent or early pubescent sexual impulses, when they begin to feel aroused without knowing what it means or is, and attention gets fixed on something that isn't sexual or on some particular body part as a sort of symbol of the rest. I can't prove this, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me (and probably Freud said something of the kind; I can't remember).

Re: from damozel

[xakara.livejournal.com]

The pre-pubsecent transference of sexual feelings onto objects and circumstances isn't extensive enough to cover the psychology of sexual expression. Having a root encounter only opens one up to the possibility, but it doesn't explain the active psychology in the pursuit of those sexual expressions.

Everything we find sexy outside of sex touches on being a fetish, it's is only diagnosed as one when the fetish must be present in order to elicit sexual response. So everyone who goes through sexual maturity in some way transfers or broadens those feeling to encompass more than the concept of gentalia coming together. But what we pursue versus what we allow to fall to the wayside defines our adult sexual express and that psychology is what I'd like explored in fiction through a characters eyes.

I just realized that I shouln't give replies this late at night/early in the morning because they can become rambles all their own. :)

But yes, beyond the sexual aspect of polyamory and polyfidelity is the sociological exploration of it in fiction as another model of how to live. But so many are caught up on how such dynamics work in the bedroom that most are only willing to pick up books where they get a glimpse of that aspect and can therefor be at ease with the concept as a whole.

And I swear I'm done now. LOL

~X

[tinkerbell-nl.livejournal.com]

Nice list! :-) I'm not into doing most of it, but reading about it can have its pleasure!
Thanks for visiting my best wishes TT.